"Can good make a rock big enough so that he cannot lift it?" I would say that that shows fairly clearly that God cannot be omnipotent. Unless God chooses for some reason not to be omnipotent to create such a rock, in which case he loses his omnipotence by choice.
If you believe you have found one please do post it as a thorough logical arguement OK, I'll give it a go - I'll pass this thread on to a friend of mine who is much better at explaining these things than I.
What about this:
God would not create evil
God is the only being capable of creating things
Evil exists
If only God is capable of creating things and evil exists either God is not the only being capable of creating things, evil does not really exist, or God does not exist.
or
God is omnipotent and omniscient
God is the only being capable of creating beings
God would not create evil
Evil is defined as rebellion against God
Given two, three, and four: God would not create a being who would rebel against him
God created the devil
The devil rebelled against God
Given six and seven: God created a being who would rebel against him
Given five and eight: God cannot exist
or
God is perfectly just
Men commit sin
If God is just, then God will punish the sin of men
God can punish Jesus for the sin of mankind
Hell is the punishment for sin
Hell can be avoided if Jesus is punished in someone elses place
God is perfectly loving
God is able to save anyone
God can choose who to save
It is more loving to save everyone than it is to save some
Not everyone is saved
If everyone is not saved then God is not perfectly loving
or
If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.
or
If God exists he is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect
If God exists given that he is morally perfect he would not create evil
Evil is defined as rebellion against God
God created Adam and Eve
Adam and Eve rebelled against God
God transforms people before they go into heaven so that they will not rebel against him
God would not create man with the ability to sin if it were avoidable
Given six: God is able to make man such that he will not rebel against him
Given four and five: God created man who did rebel against him
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timeasmymeasure
Re: This year's CICCU Main Event - DIRECTION
Date: 2005-02-06 05:40 pm (UTC)I would say that that shows fairly clearly that God cannot be omnipotent. Unless God chooses for some reason not to be omnipotent to create such a rock, in which case he loses his omnipotence by choice.
If you believe you have found one please do post it as a thorough logical arguement
OK, I'll give it a go - I'll pass this thread on to a friend of mine who is much better at explaining these things than I.
What about this:
- God would not create evil
- God is the only being capable of creating things
- Evil exists
- If only God is capable of creating things and evil exists either God is not the only being capable of creating things, evil does not really exist, or God does not exist.
or- God is omnipotent and omniscient
- God is the only being capable of creating beings
- God would not create evil
- Evil is defined as rebellion against God
- Given two, three, and four: God would not create a being who would rebel against him
- God created the devil
- The devil rebelled against God
- Given six and seven: God created a being who would rebel against him
- Given five and eight: God cannot exist
or- God is perfectly just
- Men commit sin
- If God is just, then God will punish the sin of men
- God can punish Jesus for the sin of mankind
- Hell is the punishment for sin
- Hell can be avoided if Jesus is punished in someone elses place
- God is perfectly loving
- God is able to save anyone
- God can choose who to save
- It is more loving to save everyone than it is to save some
- Not everyone is saved
- If everyone is not saved then God is not perfectly loving
or- If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
- If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
- If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
- If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
- Evil exists.
- If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
- Therefore, God doesn't exist.
or