There are more sane Christians though who would argue that God does not make his existence clear to everyone, only a few. This seems more reasonable to me - it allows some to have had this revelation while others of us are left in the cold.
Indeed. Although it'd then be fair to ask why some are left in the cold if God wants everyone to believe. I can see how a Calvinist might cope with that, but other sorts of Christian might have a problem.
Have you considered holding a more extended debate with Paul? I doubt he has the time (or perhaps the inclination) for such a debate, but I would personally find such a debate / discussion helpful. I've emailed St. Helens with the link to this page in the hope that he might appear and say interesting things.
I'm not sure what the forum for such a debate would be. Paul did say that he doesn't really get into discussions on the Internet as he'd never get anything else done otherwise. I'd certainly continue the discussion if the option were available, because it was fun, but I wasn't under the illusion that we were convincing anyone of anything much :-)
Is God a simpler explanation for anything? If not then why not? If it's because it leads to more questions... well isn't that true of any answer? Surely its turtles all the way down?
I think I should have put more emphasis on what else you can explain and what else you can predict. Saying "God did it" is a sort of non-answer since it doesn't tell you much about the world. It's like the classic "energy makes it go" line that Feynman so disliked.
Does it? I don't see how this makes one wonder at all.
It doesn't make me wonder because I've already advanced my theory of how CICCU graduates are hoisted by their own rationalist petard. But if I were CICCU, I might wonder. Although Paul Clarke provides the standard explanation in quoting the Parable of the Sower.
This has been the kind of reaction I've had with a number of my Christian friends which has led to me thinking that they must be brainwashed (in the sense that they have lost their ability to rationally listen to and evaluate what they are being told).
You might find it helpful to say "well, that might be what you'd do if the restraints of Christianity were lifted, but..." :-)
Do you think he sincerely cared?
Yes. He was a very personable chap. Undoubtedly, if you're selecting someone to go into universities and tell the non-Christians they deserve eternal conscious torment when they die, you'd probably pick someone personable and good at public speaking to do it, but I don't think that means he's insincere. That said, it's always worth noticing the tricks that evangelical Christians have adopted from other salesmen. I mentioned the always be closing thing in relation to the callers when Steven Carr appeared on the programme, for example.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2006-09-10 09:46 pm (UTC)Indeed. Although it'd then be fair to ask why some are left in the cold if God wants everyone to believe. I can see how a Calvinist might cope with that, but other sorts of Christian might have a problem.
Have you considered holding a more extended debate with Paul? I doubt he has the time (or perhaps the inclination) for such a debate, but I would personally find such a debate / discussion helpful. I've emailed St. Helens with the link to this page in the hope that he might appear and say interesting things.
I'm not sure what the forum for such a debate would be. Paul did say that he doesn't really get into discussions on the Internet as he'd never get anything else done otherwise. I'd certainly continue the discussion if the option were available, because it was fun, but I wasn't under the illusion that we were convincing anyone of anything much :-)
Is God a simpler explanation for anything? If not then why not? If it's because it leads to more questions... well isn't that true of any answer? Surely its turtles all the way down?
I think I should have put more emphasis on what else you can explain and what else you can predict. Saying "God did it" is a sort of non-answer since it doesn't tell you much about the world. It's like the classic "energy makes it go" line that Feynman so disliked.
Does it? I don't see how this makes one wonder at all.
It doesn't make me wonder because I've already advanced my theory of how CICCU graduates are hoisted by their own rationalist petard. But if I were CICCU, I might wonder. Although Paul Clarke provides the standard explanation in quoting the Parable of the Sower.
This has been the kind of reaction I've had with a number of my Christian friends which has led to me thinking that they must be brainwashed (in the sense that they have lost their ability to rationally listen to and evaluate what they are being told).
You might find it helpful to say "well, that might be what you'd do if the restraints of Christianity were lifted, but..." :-)
Do you think he sincerely cared?
Yes. He was a very personable chap. Undoubtedly, if you're selecting someone to go into universities and tell the non-Christians they deserve eternal conscious torment when they die, you'd probably pick someone personable and good at public speaking to do it, but I don't think that means he's insincere. That said, it's always worth noticing the tricks that evangelical Christians have adopted from other salesmen. I mentioned the always be closing thing in relation to the callers when Steven Carr appeared on the programme, for example.