Seems to me that the cost God allegedly paid was considerably less -- infinitely less, indeed -- than the cost every single non-saved human being is going to be paying I don't know why you think that.
and God (more or less by definition) is much better able to pay that cost I don't think it's like being fined where people who have lots of money are less affected by the fine, I think it's more like enduring pain or torture or something where there is little or no variation in how reduced the effect is. Given that the separation from God the father on the cross was total (the why have you forsaken me stuff) I'm inclined to conclude that it was less costly for God.
However, never mind that; I don't think anything much depends on how much it "cost" God to do whatever he did; actions don't become more meritorious just because you make them needlessly painful. I don't think God did make it 'needlessly painful'. I don't understand the mechanics of it all (I admitted that a while ago), but my lack of understanding of things as complex and external to my everyday experience is something I just wouldn't expect to understand.
I think we're going in circles here. You seem to think God is obligated to save people, and if he doesn't he is bad, whereas I think we are rightly judged for our actions and if God chooses to save any of us that's an amazing thing. I'm not sure this bit of the thread is really going anywhere.
"I know my spouse is openly sleeping with a dozen other people, insults me in front of my friends, and only talks to me once a year. But I've got ample reasons for believing that s/he loves me beyond description and is perfectly faithful to me." It's not like that because I don't consider God's actions to be immoral. I don't think there is good contradictory information as you are suggesting here.
Could you provide at least a brief sketch of what these answers are that God has provided and how they outweigh the obvious facts of (e.g.) living in a world full of evil and, according to you, billions of people suffering eternal torment? I can give it a go, and will do in the coming weeks on my blog.
no subject
I don't know why you think that.
and God (more or less by definition) is much better able to pay that cost
I don't think it's like being fined where people who have lots of money are less affected by the fine, I think it's more like enduring pain or torture or something where there is little or no variation in how reduced the effect is. Given that the separation from God the father on the cross was total (the why have you forsaken me stuff) I'm inclined to conclude that it was less costly for God.
However, never mind that; I don't think anything much depends on how much it "cost" God to do whatever he did; actions don't become more meritorious just because you make them needlessly painful.
I don't think God did make it 'needlessly painful'. I don't understand the mechanics of it all (I admitted that a while ago), but my lack of understanding of things as complex and external to my everyday experience is something I just wouldn't expect to understand.
I think we're going in circles here. You seem to think God is obligated to save people, and if he doesn't he is bad, whereas I think we are rightly judged for our actions and if God chooses to save any of us that's an amazing thing. I'm not sure this bit of the thread is really going anywhere.
"I know my spouse is openly sleeping with a dozen other people, insults me in front of my friends, and only talks to me once a year. But I've got ample reasons for believing that s/he loves me beyond description and is perfectly faithful to me."
It's not like that because I don't consider God's actions to be immoral. I don't think there is good contradictory information as you are suggesting here.
Could you provide at least a brief sketch of what these answers are that God has provided and how they outweigh the obvious facts of (e.g.) living in a world full of evil and, according to you, billions of people suffering eternal torment?
I can give it a go, and will do in the coming weeks on my blog.